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My General Talk Thread

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This thread is for discussing anything that I feel like discussing...
I made this thread so I wouldn't have to clog up the talk forum with twenty threads discussing whatever came to mind.

The first thing I want to talk about is SMW hacking.
I don't understand why we need to use ASM, custom blocks, and all of this other fancy stuff in hacks...
I mean, if your so good at ASM, just make your own game!
Why even call it SMW hacking if your just going to create an entirely new game?
FuSoYa made Lunar Magic so you could hack SMW, not manipulate it...
Discuss.

Ps-All of these discussions are in my opinion. I'm not forcing any of you to believe what I believe, I just want to have a good, clean discussion. :)
First off, some people think advanced hacking is wrong. People like Kagami, and apparently you.

You see, some people (like me) hack SMW because they are bored with the orignal game. But if you use the same graphics, sprites, etc. it can still feel too much like the original. Hex editing is beyond the click and drag thing, but games are made from hex, and couldn't exist without it. Also, there isn't a program for everything there is to hack SMW, so hex editors and ASM come in handy when it comes to misc. stuff. Hacking SMW isn't limited to just the basic click and drag....

Besides, making a game from sratch is harder, and SMW already has an engine that you can edit, which is easier for most people.
Great idea making this thread Weegee! (but just you wait, some band of idiots will come along, overdue the idea, and make it a bannable offence)
I'd have to agree with pyro. I feel like that we sometimes over analyze this whole hacking thing. We do it for fun. We do it FTW XD. We do it because we're bored. Whatever makes you happy I guess...
I'm on the neutral side on this. Does it matter whether we ASM hack or click n' drag? Of course the ASMers could make their own game, but without the popularity that LM gives, they would be flash games on some freewebs site. And if you don't ASM the game (like me), those ASM hackers are able to make extra content so that our games don't feel like the old SMW. It's definetally a double edged sword that's coated in a sugary glaze (like strudel!)

By the way, does anyone think that LM will ever get a full scale upgrade (ver. 1.2 or whatever)?
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Originally posted by Mr. Weegee
I don't understand why we need to use ASM, custom blocks, and all of this other fancy stuff in hacks...


Well.. We don't need to use that. All SMW Hackers have their own choices to use or don't use.

What really matters is the level design. Custom blocks, sprites, ExGraphics and ASM come to help and add an unique look to the hack. See, the most popular hacks are because they have a unique look.

In a other way, see RAGB's hack, called "Return to Dinosaur Land". It's a featured hack, and it doesn't have any custom stuff. The focus of it is just the level design, and so it's one that doesn't match with I've stated above. The same goes to Super Challenge World (Well.. It included a few graphic tweaks, but they were rare) which is not here, but past members may renember the hack and it had an great level design.

But you can also analyze Brutal Mario. Focus = ASM. The level design sometimes are very bad, but mostly, what maked it a featured hack, the unique look of it: Lots of bosses from other games, custom sprites and blocks, which all are related to ASM stuff.

My opinion? I think it's not necessary to use custom blocks/sprites/exgfx/asm stuff to your SMW hack. I use that to my hack, mostly becuase I'm looking for an unique look to my hack. I also use that because I'm kinda tired of SMW, their enemies and their graphics.

@I8STrudel: FuSoYa quit ROM Hacking a long time ago. I'm 99,9999% sure that LM will not get a upgrade. Only if someone gets Lunar Magic and decides to upgrade it because that someone thinks Lunar Magic is outdated, but I doubt that this will ever happen.

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NEWSFLASH!!!
LUNAR MAGIC INSTALLS ASM HACKS IN ORDER TO "MANIPULATE" SMW!
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[?] Miscellaneous Helpful Hints
If I moderated your hack, there was apparently a 90 percent chance it was rejected.
^ win

Ok. Now serious mode. In my opinion, using a level editor to create a "ROM hack" doesn't really count to me as ROM hacking - sure, it can be of assistance in designing your game, but to me, the definition of "true" ROM hacking is picking apart/playing around with the data to learn something new about how the game works, and then using that knowledge to change something in the ROM - whether it be to make a translation, a bug fix, or a new game out of an old one. Yes, this obviously involves data manipulation. >_>;

Perhaps a more accurate statement then, would be "FuSoYa released Lunar Magic to the public to allow people to modify the levels, overworld, graphics, title screen, and credits of SMW without having to learn the technical details of the game." With a level editor, you don't really learn much so about the inner workings of the game as you do the interface and limitations of the editor.

That being said, people who choose SMW to modify have an option most people don't - they can choose to use a very in-depth level editor with an interface so simple that a dog could use it for much of their needs, along with countless other utilities, to make the "platformer they always dreamed of" easier than programming one from scratch or hacking another platformer that has less utilities or is not as well-documented, if at all.

SMW can be a stepping stone into much deeper ROM hacking depending on what your intentions are, such as in the scenario above - you want to make your own 2D platformer almost exactly as you envision it, until you run into something you really need to motivate you to learn ASM and stuff to get what you want. Learning ASM really isn't that hard, and is a fulfilling experience just to learn some basic stuff and play around with for a while before you get further into it, as opposed to always requesting stuff you need.

Of course, you don't need to use ASM to make a good SMW hack, per se, but even a little knowledge of it can help you make useful tweaks, like altering the physics to your liking, or whatever. Regardless of whether or not you learn about the inner workings of SMW, using Lunar Magic well helps you develop game designing skills and broaden your knowledge of effective platforming concepts - a skill you could very well use if you decide that you want to design video games for a living.

I will say that Lunar Magic has benefitted us in another way though, other than making game designing highly accessible. Had there not been a SMW level editor, this awesome community wouldn't exist or be remotely the same. You guys rock. :]

Quote
I mean, if your so good at ASM, just make your own game!

Then the vast majority of ROM hacking would disappear. Some ROM hackers have given us (people in general, not just SMWC) some really wonderful things we otherwise could never have unless we decided we needed to learn what we need and work for it. Even if level hacks would still be made as a result of using a utility as you said, we would lose translation and bug fix hacks that make games so much more enjoyable. Oh, and another point - FuSoYa may have never made Lunar Magic if he was "so good at ASM, he just made his own game instead" since to make the program, you need to understand the game well enough and know yet another language to code the utility in, so you would likely lose level hacks and utilities as well. :[

Just look above you...
If it's something that can be stopped, then just try to stop it!
I saw a thread similar to this on another forum I go to. And in just a few less words, I can summarize what I said there.

The main reasons that people don't just make their own game, if they know ASM, is...

1. Because making a game from scratch is a massive project that would require hundreds of hours of work, for a team to do, nonetheless a single person. Some people, like me, don't like the idea of that.

2. Sometimes making a hack of something, rather than starting a whole new game, is more fun to do. Personally, I find making Super Mario World hacks fun, because I am making a game I like, based on a game that is one of the best games ever made.
Oh goodie, a rant thread.

What I think makes a good SMW hack is design. Nothing else really matters, but, persay, spices up the hack. I love seeing custom sprites, blocks, music, ect. in hacks, but if design sucks, the hack itself will suck. The only reason I like Brutal Mario is because of the bosses. I actually like vanilla hacks (exception to custom music, I really get tired of the original music) if it's not bad and it's a plus if design is good. That's all I have for now.
Originally posted by Delmaru
I actually like vanilla hacks (exception to custom music, I really get tired of the original music)


Yes! FINALLY someone understands! :) I won't EVER play a hack that doesn't have custom music. It just gets really boring. SMAS music is okay though.
Originally posted by Mr. Weegee
I don't understand why we need to use ASM, custom blocks, and all of this other fancy stuff in hacks...


Because we're better that you and it makes the hack unique and it allows to add any new material that Nintendo didn't think to put. It allows the hack to show it's potential.

Quote
I mean, if you're so good at ASM, just make your own game!


Hey, you ain't the boss of us! :P

Besides, it takes lots of time. There's only a few bunch of people with that ability.

Quote
Why even call it SMW hacking if your just going to create an entirely new game?


Because it's focused on using the existing engine of SMW in order to create a game that's looks like it's a brand new game.

Quote
FuSoYa made Lunar Magic so you could hack SMW, not manipulate it...


*insert andy_k_250's post in here*

Originally posted by Mr. Weegee's thread title
My General Talk Thread


Actually, it's more like a rant thread since your first post reflects a bit of that. <_<
If you don't need ASM, you don't need Lunar Magic. Lunar Magic changes data through ASM. It even has ASM hacks, like andy_k_250 should've made clear.

Using ASM is just adding up to Lunar Magic. What's wrong with that??
As for being good at ASM and making homebrew games... most people aren't good enough to make a homebrew ROM. Making a successfully working homebrew ROM requires a lot of knowledge, probably more than you think it does. SMW is a good, basic start for learning your way up.

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Why even call it SMW hacking if your just going to create an entirely new game?

Using ASM in SMW != creating an entirely new game. Far from that. Learn to seperate them.
Overall what you said here doesn't make sense, since if you call using a bit of ASM 'a new game', you could say the same about ExGFX, music, level design, etc.

Why do you hate ASM? You can't live without it if you hack SMW. End of discussion.
--------> Don't follow "Find Roy's Dignity", my hack. Because it's pretty outdated. <--------
Everyone has their own reason for hacking SMW. I'm pretty sure most people are doing it for fun, as do I (obviously, no one gets paid to do it ^_^).

Also, I can't speak for everyone, but my idea is that if people are talented enough in programming to code their very own game, nothing is stopping them from doing so. Whether people want to make a very advanced SMW hack, or program a new game on their own, I think the bottom line is because people enjoy doing it.

For me, I hack SMW since I did like the original game and want to bring something new to the table. Also, the original game already exists, so half the work is done for me, now I just have to edit it to my liking rather than going through the hassle of programming a game from scratch. If I had skills in multiple areas such as programming and art, I'd definitely go ahead and try to program my own game. But, since I don't, I'm totally satisfied with working with an already existing game and incorporating my own creativity into it.

Honestly, I think in this day and age (for how long SMW hacking has been around) all these enhancements are necessary to hold my interest. If all these advancements didn't exist, I would probably have been tired of hacking SMW and playing hacks in general a long time ago. Not saying I wouldn't be interested in playing "vanilla" hacks nowadays or that they don't have credibility, it's just there would be much more of them for me to grow tired of. Plus, I enjoy experimenting with custom blocks, sprites, and ASM to come up with neat features.

Anyway, bottom line, I think people are doing this for enjoyment, and everyone has free will to choose how they wish to express their creativity. I don't think it's something to be really irritated over, as it's good to see people using different resources to make something special.
Originally posted by Mr. Weegee

I don't understand why we need to use ASM, custom blocks, and all of this other fancy stuff in hacks...


Indeed if you don't want to insert ASM in SMW, you are welcome do don't do it: matter of opinions

Originally posted by Mr. Weegee
I mean, if your so good at ASM, just make your own game!


You haven't an idea of how ASM is difficult: ASM of SMW is very difficult, ASM of other games or other stuff is worst!!!

Originally posted by Mr. Weegee
Why even call it SMW hacking if your just going to create an entirely new game?


Because this is a passion: if you don't like ASM, others as the best ASMers as Mi0r, Carol, Smkdan or whoever LOVES ASM (i think 8|)
Matter of opinions.

Originally posted by Mr. Weegee
FuSoYa made Lunar Magic so you could hack SMW, not manipulate it...



Discooover! i thought for a long time that Lunar Magic was to cooking!!!!!

serious now :\

so, i agree with most peoples.
indeed we do it for passion, not because someone force us.
if the your opinion would be real, SMWC would fails.

so, i need to insert ASM for what i want to do, otherwise, would be unneeded. but without additional ASM can born a very good hack.

Originally posted by mr. x

Because we're better that you and ...

bravo, continue to make others feel as a stupid. >:(
tou did it with me too.

Originally posted by Jimmy52905
Originally posted by delmaru
I actually like vanilla hacks (exception to custom music, I really get tired of the original music)
Yes! FINALLY someone understands! :) I won't EVER play a hack that doesn't have custom music. It just gets really boring. SMAS music is okay though.

just matter of opinions :)
I believe SMW Hacking can be a great learning experience for us all. I'm sure when we all started using Lunar Magic for the very first time, none of us were very good at it, right? But after a lot of practice, we start to learn more advanced things, like ASM. I also believe that the best SMW hacks come from the people who enjoy making them. Even without all those custom music, ASM, or custom graphics. (However, I do get pretty sick of seeing "vanilla" hacks all the time.)

SMW hacking is a skill that not everyone has. It's a skill that teaches patience and hard-working. And if you practice it enough, maybe one day you could even make a living out of designing games for a company like Nintendo. I think the people who hack SMW will become very successful in life.

Originally posted by Mr. Weegee
I mean, if your so good at ASM, just make your own game!


A lot of people find SMW Hacking easier, because it's based off of an already existing game, rather than having to program an entire game from scratch. SMW hacking was made to be easy enough for it to be done by one person. If one person were to program an entire game from scratch, it may take maybe even a decade to finish! People have different strengths and weaknesses when it comes to SMW hacking. Someone might be very talented at ASM, but fail at designing levels. Some people might be great with music, but completely suck at designing graphics. That's why there has never been a proffessional video game made entirely by one person. With SMW hacking, it's different. If you suck with music, SMW already has a nice soundtrack, so you don't have to worry about it. If you suck at designing graphics, don't even worry about changing the graphics. If you suck at level designing, try doing something different, like a graphics change patch or something. That's why people choose to hack SMW instead of making their own game. Most of the work is already done for them, and they just need to manipulate it as much as they can to try and make a great game.

Well, that's my opinion. ^_^
Originally posted by Simple Bag
Great idea making this thread Weegee! (but just you wait, some band of idiots Sakkanushis will come along, overdue the idea, and make it a bannable offence)


Who called it!? :D
*chuckles lightly*</b> Tee-hee =P

Well, well...if I have thought a single topic would have a reaction like that, then I must have been mistaken in the first place.

My orignial intention for my thread created just earlier was for me to eventually show. Rather than forging multiple small threads when I would desire critiqu on my ROM learning proccess, I thought a single thread would help me out there in the near future. Also to be honest, it is a bit difficult for me at this time to socialize with any members here & other various threads & boards. Thought the thread might help me know some people better...maybe I'm feeding my ego too *smiles*</b>

Well, all joking aside; I do apologise if my intentions appear to be over-do'ing a thread with commong purposes. I'll keep this in mind for next time around. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the purpose of Mr. Weegee's thread here was to discuss what was on his mind, no? My thread's simply a intro/talk/showcase thread to me. Again, perhaps I gave off the wrong intentions.

Also, who here would also consider a more 'personal' thread to soon be a bannable offense? I am curious on who shares that ideal thought, so I'll know better if it would have a better reception or not.

So if anyone feels my thread's demeaning in any way, please do tell & I'll resolve the issue swiftly *tips hat*</b>

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Sakkanushi, the difference between your thread and Weegee's thread, is that he actually made a topic to discuss, worth discussing on this site. Your thread is more of a social thing for you only, where people really won't know what to discuss, which is probably the reason why no one (i considered it) posting in your thread. Weegee made a topic to discuss, so naturally, people came and posted in it :)

But anyway, on topic, the point of hacking SMW, as (i think) pointed out in the previous posts, is because people get bored of the same repetivive game, not being able to alter it to suit your fancy. Of course, SMW basic hacking is fun at all, but the point in the advanced part is to create a whole new different game, something that doesn't mirror the old game, and gives it a whole new feel. People use SMW as a guide in my opinion, this is probably because they don't want to make a new game ENTIRELY (that'll take forever...) but practise making a better one using their imagination, hence the whole SMW hacking obsession!

FuSoYa made Lunar Magic to help people alter the game, from graphics to music, difficulty and game play. In your opinion, you said FuSoYa made Lunar Magic for people to hack, not manipulate. What's the point of being able to hack something, if you cannot manipulate into some design that amazes you?

Basically, to put it in a few words, people love SMW hacking because it gives them a sense of accomplishment, uniqueness, and because it's just plain old awesome.

~Count Bleck

ps, can we change the topic now, i think most people get the point :)
Originally posted by andy_k_250
Crazy flashy text

I was just making a statement...>_>

Originally posted by Kyoseron
Some ROM hackers have given us (people in general, not just SMWC) some really wonderful things we otherwise could never have unless we decided we needed to learn what we need and work for it.

Even though I don't care for "manipulating" SMW, I agree with this statement completely. Even though it may seem like it, I'm not against ASM. People such as Foursword4, Azure and SNN use ASM in their hacks, yet I still love the hacks they produce. Azure Chaotic is just phenomenal!

Originally posted by DarthRiko
The main reasons that people don't just make their own game, if they know ASM, is...

1. Because making a game from scratch is a massive project that would require hundreds of hours of work, for a team to do, nonetheless a single person. Some people, like me, don't like the idea of that.

2. Sometimes making a hack of something, rather than starting a whole new game, is more fun to do. Personally, I find making Super Mario World hacks fun, because I am making a game I like, based on a game that is one of the best games ever made.

When I wrote that paragraph, I didn't stop and think about any of these reasons. Those two reasons you stated are completely true.

Originally posted by Delmaru
Oh goodie, a rant thread.

What I think makes a good SMW hack is design. Nothing else really matters, but, persay, spices up the hack. I love seeing custom sprites, blocks, music, ect. in hacks, but if design sucks, the hack itself will suck. The only reason I like Brutal Mario is because of the bosses. I actually like vanilla hacks (exception to custom music, I really get tired of the original music) if it's not bad and it's a plus if design is good. That's all I have for now.

First, I want to tell you that this is NOT a rant thread. It is a discussion thread. I just enjoy discussing random things that I think we could all enjoy talking about. The next paragraph you wrote I have no problem with. The only thing that makes me enjoy a hack is level design. Sure I love Azure Chaotic's ASM, but what made me really love it was the incredible level design.

Originally posted by Davros
Because we're better that you and it makes the hack unique and it allows to add any new material that Nintendo didn't think to put. It allows the hack to show it's potential

Do you just enjoy ticking people off? Seriously, I wanted this thread to be an intelligent talk thread, but instead your making me look like an idiot.
Originally posted by Davros
Actually, it's more like a rant thread since your first post reflects a bit of that. <_<

As I said, this thread is a discussion thread, not a rant thread.

Originally posted by Golden Yoshi
Everyone has their own reason for hacking SMW. I'm pretty sure most people are doing it for fun, as do I (obviously, no one gets paid to do it ^_^).

That's true. I hack it for fun. As you said, nobody is getting paid for hacking. (Even though that would be nice...>_>)

Originally posted by Count Bleck
FuSoYa made Lunar Magic to help people alter the game, from graphics to music, difficulty and game play. In your opinion, you said FuSoYa made Lunar Magic for people to hack, not manipulate. What's the point of being able to hack something, if you cannot manipulate into some design that amazes you?

That is true as well. I wouldn't want to make a game that doesn't amaze me...I would want to make a game that would be amazing and fun.

Wow...I'm going against everything I said in my earlier post. But like I said, I don't think I was thinking about anything while writing that post. I seemed pretty closed minded...>_>

New Topic-Television (I am aware this new topic is random. ^_^)
What's happened to television? They've totally ruined it. When I was littler, they had awesome shows. Take "Doug," "Ren and Stimpy," and "Rocko's Modern Life" for example. They have all been replaced with crap like "Fairly Oddparents," "Jimmy Nuetron," and "Zoey 101".
In my opinion they are completely ruining TV. It's not just Nick that's been ruined, other shows have been ruined as well.
I rarely watch TV anymore...it's all crap. :/
Discuss. :P
Again, remember that this is not a rant thread, and these are all my opinions.
Before ANYTHING happens with this topic, you obviously didn't think this one out either, Weegee.

People (such as myself) ... basically don't watch that stuff. I changed my intrests in television a while ago, even though i'm pretty young myself, i tend to watch more of things like Supernatural or Criminal Minds. People have different intrests. The shows you mention that have been replaced sure sound really dull and baby-ish, but in my point of view, television hasn't been more exciting. Also, depending on a user's location, the television shows broadcasted probably aren't the same as they showcase here.

Related to what you said, yes, i agree, television is getting pretty boring (in some cases) these days. Try watching some normal television shows, or even something new, see if you like it. Maybe because you see a show everyday, you get so used to it, once it gets replaced, you think to yourself,

"This show isn't cool! I WANT MY OLD SHOW!"

To all of you with that problem - live with it.

*Sits back and watches Heroes*
Yeah ... this is the life.

~ Count Bleck

ps, but what would i know, tv isn't my first priority in entertainment. I revolve around friends, hacking, and Wii :P
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