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Do you consider learning a kaizo level through save states, then beating the level legit is cheating?

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Currently I am playing Grand Poo World by barb. It is a hard hack and the levels are really tough. I am a beginner to kaizo but I am getting the hang of it. I have beaten 13 levels so far in the hack. My method of playing is by first learning and practicing the most diffucult parts of the level via save states. That way I dont have to progress to a certain part of the level just to practice a certain segment. Once I have learned and practiced the level, I then play it from beginning to end without any save states. Does anyone consider this cheating?
some people might have opinions on how should you play and whether you should use savestates/fast-forward/rewind, but really, you can play however you like. ESPECIALLY when you play games as hard as kaizo hacks.
I can't even imagine playing a kaizo level without savestates.
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Originally posted by RPG Hacker
Nah, it's fair game. A lot of Kaizo players like to practice that way.


Like who? I know Ryukahr And GPB play blind.
Some kaizo hacks can be beaten without savestates easily. If the people you mentioned like to play blind, then it's likely they are playing those hacks.
I myself resort to tool usage, but that ultimately depends on the player and how generous the hacks are in regards to difficulty. Just play however you like cause it's not a way of "cheating".
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Actually, it's news to me if most of them DON'T mainly use savestates and rewinds and such. I figured that sort of playing was the main point of kaizo levels, since most of them are pretty much advertising themselves as nearly impossible with the "kaizo" tag to begin with.

So yeah, I see no shame in using the emulator to your advantage.
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Originally posted by pspman354
Originally posted by RPG Hacker
Nah, it's fair game. A lot of Kaizo players like to practice that way.


Like who? I know Ryukahr And GPB play blind.

Ryukahr and GPB are both gods.

It's okay to play however you like. No one will stick pitchforks at you for it.

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in my game you have the choice to enter kaizo land or fun land the replay value will be better than any two d platform game KT B will get credit want a demo?
Originally posted by pspman354
Originally posted by RPG Hacker
Nah, it's fair game. A lot of Kaizo players like to practice that way.


Like who? I know Ryukahr And GPB play blind.


Well, okay, I don't know if "a lot" was accurate, because I don't actually follow that many Kaizo players and/or speedrunners, but I remember that, for example, CarlSagan42 practiced a Kaizo hack (I think it was Kaizo Mario World 3) in an emulator with savestates before going to beat it "legitimately" on an actual SNES without savestates. It was in one of his videos. I also feel like having faint memories of other players doing something similar, though admittedly I can't name them, so I might be wrong.

Whatever the case, "cheating" is only really possible in any kind of discipline that has actual rules attached to it, and when you're playing Kaizo hacks just for fun or to practice, there are none, so it's impossible to cheat doing that. Only once you decide to go for actual speedrun submissions, competitions or anything like that, you should make sure to check the respective rules first, because only there is "cheating" actually a thing, but for any other kind of play, you can do pretty much whatever you want.
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Originally posted by RPG Hacker
Whatever the case, "cheating" is only really possible in any kind of discipline that has actual rules attached to it, and when you're playing Kaizo hacks just for fun or to practice, there are none, so it's impossible to cheat doing that. Only once you decide to go for actual speedrun submissions, competitions or anything like that, you should make sure to check the respective rules first, because only there is "cheating" actually a thing, but for any other kind of play, you can do pretty much whatever you want.

Ummm... Cheating is also using cheat codes. Additionally, savescumming during an RTA and editing the video as if you didn't use savestates at all is also considered cheating.

As for the way of playing, I agree with RPG Hacker. Playing with savestates is fair play even if you play a standard very hard level. It's up to you how you want to learn to play a kaizo level. I don't usually use savestates throughout the level unless I record a footage or the level takes an incredible amount of time to learn or it's (nearly) impossible to beat "legit".
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Yea that's just called playing for improvement, all that really matters is the results.
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No. That’s practicing to me. I don’t play kaizo hacks that often, but I’ll use tools 100%.
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Originally posted by 7 Up
Ummm... Cheating is also using cheat codes. Additionally, savescumming during an RTA and editing the video as if you didn't use savestates at all is also considered cheating.


I'd argue that even that still depends on your perspective. Using cheat codes could be considered cheating in the sense that you're breaking the "rules" laid out by the game designers, but then again it's up to you whether you want to play by those rules in the first place. Likewise, splicing videos to remove errors or fake a better time could be considered cheating, but only if you actually try to make other people believe that you didn't do it. Spliced speedruns are definitely a thing, but people don't mind that at all as long as they're actually labelled as spliced and not claimed to be full, legit speedruns.
Feel free to visit my website/blog - it's updated rarely, but it looks pretty cool!
I'm not sure if I've seen a spliced speedrun yet. They may be interesting, but RTA seems more impressing to me.
I have a Discord server as well! (by joining, you agree to the rules)
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Basically, I believe in peace and bashing two bricks together.

I'd say it's in between, but if I was testing a kaizo level, I would try to refrain from cheats if I don't need them.
Originally posted by K.T.B.
Actually, it's news to me if most of them DON'T mainly use savestates and rewinds and such. I figured that sort of playing was the main point of kaizo levels, since most of them are pretty much advertising themselves as nearly impossible with the "kaizo" tag to begin with.

So yeah, I see no shame in using the emulator to your advantage.

Kaizo: Light = no savestates/rewinds are required
Kaizo:Hard = savestates/rewinds are required
yuo have to play it leggit or it do not count lol
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