Originally posted by SayuriUnless something like impeachment or assassination happens. But if anything, the latter is more likely. Either one, I welcome.
If anything happens to Trump, Pence takes over. It's a loss for everyone, not to mention that killing isn't exactly the moral highground (and would only lead to more violence as said above)
Originally posted by StrikeForcerI wouldn't generalize Trump supporters as those hateful thugs you are reporting about. In fact the people mentioned that posed a genuine threat to victim in that post are the kinds of people we'd do our civic duty to report them to the police and let those people have their day in court. Nobody deserves to be treated like that, first and foremost, but I also want to highlight that it is intellectually dishonest to use that as a generalization of Trump supporters.
Nobody is generalizing, read the actual arguments surrounding that.
The people that do this are being validated and reassured that yes, the country agreed with their extreme views, so they're in the right to do this.
Even if not all Trump voters are bigots, Trump is a bigot and bigots will see his win as a win for their views.
There's actually been a plethora of articles and videos about this exact phenomenon the past few days, and the already happening spike in violence and threats is proof.
Originally posted by SpinjumperAs far as I know, the radical right isn't any more or less violent than the left. Many of those "peaceful" protests aren't very peaceful at all, and there's quite a number of times where Trump supporters have been attacked whereas the opposite seemingly isn't true (going off the google results of (trump supporter attacked vs. hillary/clinton supporter attacked, feel free to provide evidence). Anyways, I think we can agree that radicals, no matter which side they're on are bad.
Sure, both are bad and usually unrealistic, but acting like the far-right is not more
physically dangerous when that's historically been the case in the west for the past few decades is just silly. And I only say "for the past few decades" because I honestly don't know much about ancient american history.
Originally posted by SpinjumperI've done a little more research on Politifact. It's run by the Tampa Bay Times which
endorsed Hillary Clinton (second link). It all endorsed
Obama (twice),
Kerry, and
Al Gore, as well as other Democrat presidents going farther back.
There's also an entire
website dedicated to showing the bias of Politifact although I really can't vouch for the credibility of it seeing as they have their own biases. Might be worth digging through though. I couldn't find anything concrete enough though.
Okay, but an associated newspaper endorsing candidates once again is hardly solid evidence for anything. It's once again an "I told you so" kind of hint, that does nothing by itself but could be brought up when it turns out to be true to make someone seem smart. (Not saying that's bad, just that it holds no weight.)
Even so, the site actually outlines how it determines ratings and how it determines what to check, which boils down to "whatever people are asking about" and "whatever contains facts that should be checked to verify a statement built on them".
I don't think you can really skew these enough to get completely flipped results for Trump and Clinton specifically, keeping in mind that the conclusions they came to on all the actually checked statements don't seem to be wrong.
The only republican that vocally was against the fact checkers during this entire election was Trump, and he's very well known to try and insult and debase his critics as much as he can (see also scandal list below, or google for "trump sues critics").
He even sued newspapers for libel for reporting on his lies, bankruptcies and scams.
Originally posted by SpinjumperWhich scandals exactly? Consider that there is a difference between a personal scandal (like rape accusations) and a political scandal (like Clintons').
I don't really know what to say about the smugness thing, because Trump is smug, but I guess it's like a different kind of smug? I know how stupid that sounds.
If Trump was the establishment, then why was the establishment doing everything it could to stop him from winning? Hillary had tons of big money behind her, and spent nearly
twice as much on her campaign.
Scandals. I wouldn't have listed all of these, but the ones I would've wanted to list are on this, so that's easier.
Not sure what you mean about the smugness being different, smug is when you laugh or otherwise act amused at someone else's claims and Trump is a real master at that.
Only times I've really seen Hillary do it much is against Trump, not in many debates or speeches before.
And who can fault someone for snickering at all the times Trump tries to weasel his way out of being told he's wrong by mumbling "no that's wrong, wrong wrong" into the mic.
About paying more: yeah, she's bought out and corrupt. My point is that people have an unreasonable trust in Trump not to work for his own corporation's gain, when he's literally employed scam artists for that goal in the past and has avoided paying taxes for decades, even bragging about it
during a presidential election.
Originally posted by SpinjumperIt's funny, though. I was never really a huge Trump supporter. Hell, I don't even like him. Frankly, he's an asshole. Hillary, though, as I said before, is everything I hate about politics wrapped up in a nice bundle. And honestly I'm real tired of all these liberals crying about how Trump is literally Hitler and that the world's ending. I'm just waiting for things to stop being so weird. It's been one hell of a year.
I'm glad you put your being tired of people being scared above the lives of all the gay people that'll be forced to undergo conversion therapy under Pence (incredibly high suicide rate in this btw thanks to the completely medieval methods used) and whose marriage rights are going to be taken away (as Pence has already stated they're working on), all the illegal immigrants that are going to be deported with their families (Trump stated that even legal US citizens born to illegal immigrants will be deported) (and if they are let back in, that'll probably take for fucking ever thanks to the huge amount of 10+ million), all the women who aren't allowed to choose for themselves whether they want to or can even take care of a small human all the while not a single word on Trump's side was dropped regarding helping women in the job market, all the trans people that no doubt will experience a spike in the already ridiculously high violence rate against them thanks to their opponents getting validated by the bathroom bill being dug up and revoked and all the general xenophobia that's already spiking across america, to where even school children bully mexicans and muslims as terrorists and criminals just for being there.
Oh wow, could it be that those are a lot of the same people as the "liberals crying" and other people with actual empathy? Maybe because their world pretty much
is ending?
Like I really don't have anything against republican policies that aren't related to any of this, but it's just fact that Trump comes packaged with all these things (and Pence comes packaged with Trump, who doubles down on all of these).
Originally posted by PatAs horrible and despicable as him being bigoted is, who do you hate more? Trump or ISIS? ISIS literally shoots and blows innocent people up. Trump isn't going to go to war with Mexico or Syria just because he doesn't like people with darker skin. It's unconstitutional and he sure as hell knows this.
... What kind of argument is this? If Clinton were pro-ISIS I'd understand, but fact is she isn't, nobody was.
Originally posted by PatI'm sick and tired of my country being something else's bitch. Everyone looks at us like a joke because we've had ISIS killing innocent people on our own soil and we haven't done shit about it. North Korea is declaring war on us, and let's face it, they're not very respected by other countries either.
For what it's worth, all of europe was relieved when Obama won and the general sentiment over here right now is that your country is fucking crazy for even nominating Trump for this, let alone fucking voting and winning it for him.
Also fun-fact, ISIS isn't only in america. They actually happen to be in the middle east a lot! And in european countries, too!
I don't know where your sudden patriotism regarding that came from, but Trump isn't a magical ISIS cure, anyone that would've won the election would've done their best to stop ISIS.
I'm not saying Trump is a
worse choice against ISIS, but trying to claim that the choice was between Trump and ISIS is fucking stupid and you know it.
Originally posted by PatThe American people obviously have spoken and made their choice, and while I can definitely agree Trump was not the optimal choice, we want progress NOW. For the past 8 years we've gotten nothing but all this bullshit and everyone is tired of all this bullshit. Obama's been way too lenient toward other nations and nobody takes us seriously. Now tell me I'm wrong. Even the Philippines, one of the dirt-shit poorest countries ever, have turned over to communism when they've been for America for so long.
Technically, they haven't spoken. Clinton won the popular vote, more people would have wanted her.
The american election system being a pile of dung isn't news to anyone though I guess.
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