Originally posted by Spinjumper· He's Big Business
You also mentioned this, but Hillary has lot's of money behind her, suspicious considering that she claims to want to raise taxes on the wealthy. Why would big business support something that would be detrimental to their key goal: making money? Hillary wants to remove tax loopholes which sounds all fine and dandy until you consider that the same loopholes that big businesses use to make even more money are the same ones that small businesses use just to stay afloat. While it comes down to economic theory on whether Trump's plans will work, Hillary's don't seem to make sense.
One of the presidential debates had the question guy flat out state that Trump's plan doesn't make any sense, is vague and the numbers don't match up.
I very highly doubt that a person in that position would claim anything that bad without having researched it through a ton of experts, so I'll take their word over yours here.
I'm not an economics expert nor do I actually care much about this, that part was just a rebuttal to the corruption argument (she's no doubt corrupt either way) while hiding behind people who definitely know more about this than all of us.
(Which, before you or anyone tries to claim that, doesn't make it any less valid of a point.)
And about that small businesses argument -- I don't believe that they have to rely on the same exact tricks that the big ones do, because those generally require a large amount of money or the ability to store shit elsewhere. If this is wrong, feel free to hook me up with sources.
And lastly, it's pretty obvious that they aren't stupid, they'd know this if it were true and find workarounds.
Originally posted by Spinjumper· Rape Allegations
Unless it can be proven in court, rape allegations simply have no weight. Anyone can say that they were raped by someone else, and as it stands, most that falsely accuse someone of rape get away with little more than a slap on the wrist, despite how detrimental it is to the accused person's image.
Hey, that's the "let's dismiss literally every rape accusation and turn the alleged victims into definite assholes" argument you see all over YouTube all the time.
I'm not gonna give that any real response, because as my post you read already stated, I believe that while the accused person shouldn't be immediately locked up, assuming in any way that the accuser is doing it to harm someone's image or to further their goals is straight up fucking evil.
If these accusations all surfaced with him running for president then sure, I could believe a political incentive, but fact of the matter is they didn't.
Not to mention, as Pat said, we will NEVER know the actual answer to this because rich people simply don't get locked up in America, they'll settle it out of court. That's how it worked for Hillary (according to the right), that's how it'll work for Trump.
Originally posted by Spinjumper· KKK backs him
People love to spout this. The KKK endorsing him doesn't mean he endorses the KKK.
That wasn't really an argument as much as just to give some perspective on what kinds of people also agree with this candidate's views.
Also, people don't spout, they claim.
Originally posted by Spinjumper· Trump Quotes
Without context quotes hold little weight. This is especially true about someone like Trump, who doesn't have much of a filter. And that's not always a good thing, sure, but I prefer it to the way politicians usually speak in such a robotic precise way as if they're not even human. Trump's said some stupid shit, but everyone says stupid shit.
You can click on all the quotes to get context.
And even then, the quotes hold plenty weight without it.
None of them are so vague that details are hidden or twisted by being shortened, he said all those things straight up.
"Everyone says stupid shit" is a 10/10 garbage defense too, because I didn't see Hillary or Bernie say anything anywhere close to as much stupid shit as he did, and most of the shit they said was only half as bad as the shit Trump said, on average (especially re: Bernie).
And even if they did, that doesn't make Trump saying it any better. That's kindergarten-tier logic.
Originally posted by Spinjumper
Picking 10 or so examples that help your case is barely "proven biased", but I obviously can't verify every single claim they've made, so okay it's slightly skewed I guess?
I don't really see the problem in half of those ratings, there's only two I'd agree are pretty weird, the "Not by the official statistis" one and the "questionable comparison" one.
Cause in the former, by which verifiable statistics then? And the latter because the facts seem right enough, even if that really is a silly comparison.
Definitely not enough to flip both of those truth triangles upsidedown.
(Also can't believe that anyone would actually use that image as an argument considering it complains about the False on Cruz' first quote.)
That all being said, you seem to have completely missed the general point of Trump being a hateful asshole that shouldn't be put into any position of power, ESPECIALLY not with Pence who just takes all his bad views, adds a few and turns them up to eleven.
His presidency is not going to be helpful to anyone that isn't white and straight. Nobody ever seems to be able to produce good points about Trump either, at least none that don't boil down to memes.
Especially since I have literally no idea what it even is that people don't like about Hillary so much. She's your run-of-the-mill politician and I've not heard anyone even try to claim otherwise from the right, it's so confusing to me (bar the "she's the devil incarnate, there's flies on her" Alex Jones people).
Originally posted by ThePat545This could actually go two ways. On one hand, he could just be your friendly neighborhood corrupt businessman. On the other hand, he has the experience and knowledge to bring the U.S. out of its bad economy. We'll just have to wait and see if he's good or bad on that situation.
See my point above. I'd love it if he proved me wrong though, don't get me wrong. I'm already actually a bit pleasantly surprised at how... non-extreme and agreeable some of his recently proposed policies are.
Originally posted by ThePatWell, the KKK likes breathing, should we all suffocate ourselves? Obviously this isn't such an extreme case like everyone suffocating, but trying to say a small group of 5000-8000 racist people somehow speak for the 59,590,470 people who voted for Trump is generalization.
This is just a really bad argument, the first part. False equivalency out the wazoo.
The second part, no, of course they aren't representative of all of America, but
this basically sums it up coupled with the hundreds of posts I've seen of people (minorities) being afraid to go out, especially wearing their usual religious clothing.
Trump just is the candidate with the super strong racist support whether you want it or not, and for good reason, just him winning alone will and apparently already has caused a spike in hatecrimes, much like the ones surrounding Brexit.
Coupled with a dozen or so suicides already, most of which LGBT. And no Torchkas, those weren't magical gay martyrs planning to guilt trip all the poor Trump supporters.
Originally posted by ThePatOkay, so this is a VERY touchy subject that I myself don't like to talk about. But everyone is innocent until proven guilty in the court of law. None of us could say he's good or bad until he's in handcuffs or impeached. Especially since people have the balls to make allegations against relatively well-known on YouTube such as Bashur and Tobuscus, I'm sure people throw dirt on OTHER people they don't like.
See response above. He'll never end up in handcuffs and nobody had much to gain from these, especially not a teenage girl.
Originally posted by ThePatBut he's only well-known to be a sexist, not any of the other extreme things people have said. I can guarantee you if he never ran for president those tapes would not be as relevant as they are now and probably never leaked.
Of course they wouldn't be leaked, just like how Hillary's emails wouldn't have been leaked.
And like, to be honest, nobody I know actually really cared about that tape, it showed nothing we didn't already know about him. The media sure loved it I guess.
Also trying to claim Trump isn't transphobic and racist as well is to ignore all of his past (in which he refused to house black families and used illegal immigrants as workforce only to then not pay them a penny), his fierce hatred of latinxs, the fact that he himself said that he does not believe trans people should be allowed to use the proper bathrooms (sadly, this is still the only mainstream discourse about trans people, as stupid as it is) and the fact that Pence is his chosen VP.
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