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Glitch Abuse 3

Kaizo

Originally posted by ShadowDragon121
Originally posted by HoorayForJay
Originally posted by ShadowDragon121
...Wait...
That is a block clip, not an upward corner clip. I call shenanigans.
Unless there is an actual proven way to do it, I am convinced that this upward corner clip is not possible.


Not sure if you watched the wrong bit, but there's a definite upwards clip there.


"pic"
That bit, correct?

Also, that break that I found wasn't a huge thing, just equivalent to my break in the original version. Although, I don't think it would make a big deal if it were changed.


Yes, that is the clip I'm talking about. I'm super sorry if it turns out it's not really an upwards clip or it's only possible with flying or something.. I'll fix it if you can't do it.

Originally posted by HoorayForJay
ShadowDragon found a dirty break in the first room, namely abusing the invisible cement blocks and pushing to over the level. I wanted to make a tas without any major breaks, so I was a bit put off when I saw this. While I want to be part of the fastest tas, I don't like using major breaks like this, so I'd feel encouraged to continue the tas if it didn't contain breaks like this. Obviously, it's very very difficult to make a hack break-free, but I'd only want to continue if the first room was completely fixed, with no over nor under level breaks.

I put entertainment value in a tas above the actual speed of it, but ignoring breaks like devalues it, so ultimately I'd like it to be optimised with any "cheating". I'm very picky, but hey, I'm a busy guy now =P


I completely agree with you, a tas is more entertaining if it isn't broken with dumb stuff like flying under the level or above it. If a hack is highly contested (IA, KMW, SDW), than obviously it's okay to break it and lose entertainment value. But since I'm predicting that only a few tases of this hack will be made, it would be more cool to not skip a level.

If you guys both agree (and gecko), I'll change it.

As far as the upwards corner clip, I'll fix that too and figure out a cool clip to replace it if no one can get it (I can't get it either).
I need to start fully testing my hacks
Originally posted by GbreezeSunset
-lots of stuff-


I so glad you agree. I feel like we're the only ones tasing it anyway, so if it's ok with the other guys I'd like a fix of the first level, like some sort of floor and super ceiling =P

Little breaks are ok, like I think I found one or two, just nothing that means missing out on the whole room.
Originally posted by HoorayForJay
Originally posted by GbreezeSunset
-lots of stuff-


I so glad you agree. I feel like we're the only ones tasing it anyway, so if it's ok with the other guys I'd like a fix of the first level, like some sort of floor and super ceiling =P

Little breaks are ok, like I think I found one or two, just nothing that means missing out on the whole room.


Alright! Should I fix the invisi-yoshi break in the first room, or keep it? Did you guys use the stun glitch in the first room? You're supposed to use the shell to stun the jumping fire, which produces a weird sprite that spawns another weird sprite that moves across the screen that you can jump on across the area. I'm just wondering if you used the intended solution.. you don't need to in your tas.
Like this


Also, this is what I would fix. I put a muncher ceiling all across the top of the screen. I also fixed a little bit of some other rooms, but just graphical stuff and extra munchers on the ceiling.

Invisible yoshi break is up to you, I didn't use it, and it doesn't skip out a lot of the level. I had no idea about the stun, I just got running speed, spat out the shell and bounced off of it, and I managed to walljump up the tower since I double ate the mushroom at the start. Whatever you choose, I'm gonna take it as the final version and start on it :)
Originally posted by HoorayForJay
Invisible yoshi break is up to you, I didn't use it, and it doesn't skip out a lot of the level. I had no idea about the stun, I just got running speed, spat out the shell and bounced off of it, and I managed to walljump up the tower since I double ate the mushroom at the start. Whatever you choose, I'm gonna take it as the final version and start on it :)


Alright I'll keep it. Oh okay! Yeah that's fine, that's not a bad break. There's plenty of other stun glitch parts anyway.

I'm unsure about whether I need to take out the upwards corner clip though. Did you ever manage to do it?
Originally posted by GbreezeSunset
Originally posted by HoorayForJay
Invisible yoshi break is up to you, I didn't use it, and it doesn't skip out a lot of the level. I had no idea about the stun, I just got running speed, spat out the shell and bounced off of it, and I managed to walljump up the tower since I double ate the mushroom at the start. Whatever you choose, I'm gonna take it as the final version and start on it :)


Alright I'll keep it. Oh okay! Yeah that's fine, that's not a bad break. There's plenty of other stun glitch parts anyway.

I'm unsure about whether I need to take out the upwards corner clip though. Did you ever manage to do it?


I tried briefly, didn't persist with it. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible. So here's the tricky decision: If you KNOW it is possible, like definitely possible to the right with the right height and stuff, and with 49 speed instead of what I assume is 51 from the tas, if you know for a fact that it is possible, keep it. If you're unsure or you can't recreate it for yourself (pfft who tests hacks anymore, so mainstream) then change it for something.

So yeh you should totally test Glitch Abuse 4 before you release it so this doesn't happen =P
Originally posted by HoorayForJay
Originally posted by GbreezeSunset
Originally posted by HoorayForJay
Invisible yoshi break is up to you, I didn't use it, and it doesn't skip out a lot of the level. I had no idea about the stun, I just got running speed, spat out the shell and bounced off of it, and I managed to walljump up the tower since I double ate the mushroom at the start. Whatever you choose, I'm gonna take it as the final version and start on it :)


Alright I'll keep it. Oh okay! Yeah that's fine, that's not a bad break. There's plenty of other stun glitch parts anyway.

I'm unsure about whether I need to take out the upwards corner clip though. Did you ever manage to do it?


I tried briefly, didn't persist with it. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible. So here's the tricky decision: If you KNOW it is possible, like definitely possible to the right with the right height and stuff, and with 49 speed instead of what I assume is 51 from the tas, if you know for a fact that it is possible, keep it. If you're unsure or you can't recreate it for yourself (pfft who tests hacks anymore, so mainstream) then change it for something.

So yeh you should totally test Glitch Abuse 4 before you release it so this doesn't happen =P


I am completely sure it's possible... with 51 speed.. :/
So, I'll take it out.
Oh yeah, way too mainstream. But actually, I probably won't make a 4th, not as much because there's no ideas and new glitches, but mostly because I suck at pit hack tasing now (not to mention I gave it up anyway). The only thing I can tas well right now is Super Mario Advance 2 (the gba version of smw).
Originally posted by HoorayForJay
Originally posted by GbreezeSunset
Originally posted by HoorayForJay
Invisible yoshi break is up to you, I didn't use it, and it doesn't skip out a lot of the level. I had no idea about the stun, I just got running speed, spat out the shell and bounced off of it, and I managed to walljump up the tower since I double ate the mushroom at the start. Whatever you choose, I'm gonna take it as the final version and start on it :)


Alright I'll keep it. Oh okay! Yeah that's fine, that's not a bad break. There's plenty of other stun glitch parts anyway.

I'm unsure about whether I need to take out the upwards corner clip though. Did you ever manage to do it?


I tried briefly, didn't persist with it. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible. So here's the tricky decision: If you KNOW it is possible, like definitely possible to the right with the right height and stuff, and with 49 speed instead of what I assume is 51 from the tas, if you know for a fact that it is possible, keep it. If you're unsure or you can't recreate it for yourself (pfft who tests hacks anymore, so mainstream) then change it for something.

So yeh you should totally test Glitch Abuse 4 before you release it so this doesn't happen =P


I just fixed everything, so this should be the completely possible final version.
The link


Originally posted by ShadowDragon121


Picture
That bit, correct?

Also, that break that I found wasn't a huge thing, just equivalent to my break in the original version. Although, I don't think it would make a big deal if it were changed.

For the record, that is in fact an upwards corner clip. At that height, though, it's likely only possible if you have wings to give you a consistant Y speed.

Professional frame-by-frame time wizard. YouTube - Twitter - SMW Glitch List - SMW Randomizer
Another impossible bit has come up since the clip change. Now, you don't have a mushroom to get hit in between the one tile muncher gap in the third room. I'm going to quickly change that and remove the top one...


Originally posted by Thomas

For the record, that is in fact an upwards corner clip. At that height, though, it's likely only possible if you have wings to give you a consistant Y speed.


Really? That is interesting actually. However, if that is the case, Mario would still hit the block to the upper left of the block you are clipping, making the situation still impossible.

EDIT: Also, how does a stair clip work exactly?
EDIT(2): After testing I have discovered that this is an impossible situation, as a slope clip without a cape and without jumping or swimming requires high speeds, and doing so will make your y speed become negative for a short time (about 4 frames with 49 speed), allowing you to briefly perform a slope clip. However, with lower speeds, you will not get any y speed boost at all, preventing you from clipping.
Your layout has been removed.
Originally posted by ShadowDragon121
Another impossible bit has come up since the clip change. Now, you don't have a mushroom to get hit in between the one tile muncher gap in the third room. I'm going to quickly change that and remove the top one...


Originally posted by Thomas

For the record, that is in fact an upwards corner clip. At that height, though, it's likely only possible if you have wings to give you a consistant Y speed.


Really? That is interesting actually. However, if that is the case, Mario would still hit the block to the upper left of the block you are clipping, making the situation still impossible.

EDIT: Also, how does a stair clip work exactly?
EDIT(2): After testing I have discovered that this is an impossible situation, as a slope clip without a cape and without jumping or swimming requires high speeds, and doing so will make your y speed become negative for a short time (about 4 frames with 49 speed), allowing you to briefly perform a slope clip. However, with lower speeds, you will not get any y speed boost at all, preventing you from clipping.


So, if I add room for running speed, will it work?
Like this


Also, I fixed a little bit of stuff and added a new custom box around the overworld.
Originally posted by GbreezeSunset

So, if I add room for running speed, will it work?
Like this



This should work. I still haven't fully tested it but basically the slope clip requires your y speed to be negative for a short time, and jumping onto the slope with an x speed of 43 or more will cause it to become negative. The higher your x speed, the more of a boost you will get upwards. However, I believe that clipping the slope requires the y speed to stay in the negative state for a certain amount of frames, which is probably possible with 49 speed (or slightly less).
Your layout has been removed.
Originally posted by ShadowDragon121
Originally posted by GbreezeSunset

So, if I add room for running speed, will it work?
Like this



This should work. I still haven't fully tested it but basically the slope clip requires your y speed to be negative for a short time, and jumping onto the slope with an x speed of 43 or more will cause it to become negative. The higher your x speed, the more of a boost you will get upwards. However, I believe that clipping the slope requires the y speed to stay in the negative state for a certain amount of frames, which is probably possible with 49 speed (or slightly less).


GA3

Here is the ips with the fixed stairs part. Sorry for the mess-ups! Hopefully this one will be totally fixed.
I officially have a desync since the OW change. It shouldn't be a problem though, because I can modify the frames with tas movie editor. Actually, it ends up putting me into the level one frame earlier, so it saves a lag frame.
EDIT: Nope. Editing the TAS ends up with a paradoxical desync between two oscillating frames. So, I am just going to change the one room that is changed in the old version to the one in the new version.

Also, did some more testing on the slope clip without a jump. It may require 1 more tile of slope, as the way it works is that the slope may, based on your position, shove you upwards so that your y speed starts decreasing, but also allow you to avoid hitting the slope in the process. If done correctly, you should slope clip.

The walk clip requires you to be at the very edge of the corner tile connecting the slopes, and have an initial negative y speed (which you would normally achieve for one frame). Then, the corner tile should shove you upwards, but cause your y speed to actually continue its path instead of going back to a positive value (as it would normally), allowing you to get it. Basically, from what I have observed, you need to achieve walljump conditions for the slope tile you are clipping the second frame you are shoved upwards from the corner tile.
Your layout has been removed.
Originally posted by ShadowDragon121
I officially have a desync since the OW change. It shouldn't be a problem though, because I can modify the frames with tas movie editor. Actually, it ends up putting me into the level one frame earlier, so it saves a lag frame.
EDIT: Nope. Editing the TAS ends up with a paradoxical desync between two oscillating frames. So, I am just going to change the one room that is changed in the old version to the one in the new version.

Also, did some more testing on the slope clip without a jump. It may require 1 more tile of slope, as the way it works is that the slope may, based on your position, shove you upwards so that your y speed starts decreasing, but also allow you to avoid hitting the slope in the process. If done correctly, you should slope clip.

The walk clip requires you to be at the very edge of the corner tile connecting the slopes, and have an initial negative y speed (which you would normally achieve for one frame). Then, the corner tile should shove you upwards, but cause your y speed to actually continue its path instead of going back to a positive value (as it would normally), allowing you to get it. Basically, from what I have observed, you need to achieve walljump conditions for the slope tile you are clipping the second frame you are shoved upwards from the corner tile.


I was afraid that would happen. Well, just change the one part and I'll keep this edited version for future TASes.
Okay, that makes sense. Does jumping down the stairs at running speed work similarly? Mister posted something a while ago about that
Though I always understood that "walking" through the stairs worked differently than clipping downwards like in the smw any%.
So basically, if you get your y speed to stay negative, you can clip the slope? So, does there need to be an extra slope tile so that the right values can be achieved?
Originally posted by GbreezeSunset

I was afraid that would happen. Well, just change the one part and I'll keep this edited version for future TASes.
Okay, that makes sense. Does jumping down the stairs at running speed work similarly? Mister posted something a while ago about that
Though I always understood that "walking" through the stairs worked differently than clipping downwards like in the smw any%.
So basically, if you get your y speed to stay negative, you can clip the slope? So, does there need to be an extra slope tile so that the right values can be achieved?


An extra slope tile is needed as far as I can see, but not for anything else other than how much span of pixels the trick actually takes over. The y speed boost is caused by hitting the corner tile connecting slopes, but you must boost off of one to clip another. Because of how close the upper corner tile is to the block the trick will end up clipping mario back onto the slope. You must get a y speed boost off of one, but you want to do it at the very edge of the block (subpixel perfect), and this will correctly boost you upwards so that you clip the next possible corner tile. Your y speed will keep negative and allow you to keep from clipping back onto the block, but get you far enough so that you initially actually get into the slope.

As for jump-clipping slopes, I'm not entirely sure, but I'm going to say that it works the same way, and the sprinting speed allows you to more easily get into the (2 pixel?) diagonal collision check of the block (same reason walljumping is easier at higher speeds), and you can control your y speed instead of being dependent on a corner tile to boost you upwards in just the right spot.
Your layout has been removed.
Are you (3?) still TASing it?
I'd like to play a pit hack in my return!!

By the way, there's no corner clip upwards, what ISM did was the lateral block clipping.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPN4nCaYPzM

As far as I have tested, there's no way to do it if there's another block right above (or below) Mario or the block in question. And Mario needs to be big.

SMW TAS'er. My pages:
New TAS blog - old SMW Blog, Youtube - Twitter
Originally posted by RodAmaral
Are you (3?) still TASing it?
I'd like to play a pit hack in my return!!

I have to admit that I have taken a break from TASing the hack. Sometimes I do randomly wake up and have the urge to TAS though. Something that I really need to do is come up with a way to predict a slope clip without jumping (shouldn't be difficult with my latest script that predicts where the player will be at if you hold down left or right under ground conditions).
I am unaware of where Jay is at, but he is probably TASing on and off as well. Same goes for Gecko.

Originally posted by RodAmaral
As far as I have tested, there's no way to do it if there's another block right above (or below) Mario or the block in question. And Mario needs to be big.


I have thoroughly tested it as well and I am fully convinced there is no possible way to perform it with a block diagonal to the block you are block clipping.

EDIT: Actually just got the slope clip through trying different frame-button combinations.

Your layout has been removed.
Originally posted by ShadowDragon121
Originally posted by RodAmaral
Are you (3?) still TASing it?
I'd like to play a pit hack in my return!!

I have to admit that I have taken a break from TASing the hack. Sometimes I do randomly wake up and have the urge to TAS though. Something that I really need to do is come up with a way to predict a slope clip without jumping (shouldn't be difficult with my latest script that predicts where the player will be at if you hold down left or right under ground conditions).
I am unaware of where Jay is at, but he is probably TASing on and off as well. Same goes for Gecko.

Originally posted by RodAmaral
As far as I have tested, there's no way to do it if there's another block right above (or below) Mario or the block in question. And Mario needs to be big.


I have thoroughly tested it as well and I am fully convinced there is no possible way to perform it with a block diagonal to the block you are block clipping.

EDIT: Actually just got the slope clip through trying different frame-button combinations.


Welcome back both of you, & nice job! I knew it was possible. I'll look through the hack really quickly to make sure all the impossible bits are out.
Yeah I'm also TASing on and off. It's an "on" moment right now.

The upper muncher in room 107 is still in the revised version and I don't see a way of passing it without a mushroom.

Kaizo