Language…
6 users online:  Atari2.0, BabaYegha, masl, Oskise, sinseiga, Tsquare07 - Guests: 234 - Bots: 302
Users: 64,795 (2,375 active)
Latest user: mathew

[Fan Judge] Not GlitchMr's (Non)-Anonymous Level Judging

Link Thread Closed
Originally posted by PMH
Actually I only fix the screen exit, why did you impress with my level? Are you tried to make me happy?

Was it? Perhaps not having to be annoyed by constantly restarting the level changed stuff a bit. Perhaps it's due to me playing a different way, due to already knowing the level?

Actually, checking level in Lunar Magic, it does seem to be identical. I still think that my second rating is more accurate to the actual level quality however. And the set up with enemies in Level 105 was actually fairly nice, this wasn't in the original version of a level. It's still not really good rating, but I did play worse levels in a contest.

Mathos - Stratus Stairway
Design and Execution: 5/50
Design Creativity and Aesthetic Creativity: 14/30
Aesthetics and Polish: 17/20
Overall: 36/100
Level video
That one was... confusing in many ways.

First of all, the pipe on screen 0C of level 105 is exit enabled, but there is no exit defined for that screen which means player goes into bonus game. Feel free to enable Options > General Options... > Scan Exits on Save to ROM to make such errors clear while modifying the level (this is a default, but you may have disabled that for some reason).

That said, there is a big problem with the level. It was not fun. In a way, it reminds me of playing SMWCP. Which really, is a big problem, because levels were supposed to be fun. What's worse, I cannot really point out why this happened - I should be able to, but I really cannot (after spending lots of time thinking about an answer). The secret path is clearly bad as clouds cover my screen to the point where I see nothing, but normal path wasn't anything like that. The level is translucent, but in Super Mario World, translucency doesn't mean alpha transparency, but color addition. If you add any color to white, you have white, no exception - and clouds are white, so player sees nothing.

What I feel may be cause of that for normal path, but I'm not entirely sure is combination of following factors - uninteresting obstacles, level being slow (flying turnblocks are one of slowest things in Super Mario World), feeling like a huge maze (never was entirely sure where I was going), slopes making jumps tricky (slope physics in Super Mario World are terrible, unfortunately, not to mention slopes make estimating distances hard). I think those are typical problems of Super Mario Bros. X levels, actually (which are even worse in Super Mario World due to small screen). Also, Dragon Coins placement is really weird. It demands a very unusual path from the player to collect them all. The Dragon Coin on screen 00 of level 105 is really not obvious, considering there is no reason to believe there is anything beyond secret exit pipe, and probably should be moved somewhere else. There is also minor problem with player being able to go over a level in many places, and falling into the ground, you may want to use solid dirt at level ceilings.

Giving credit where it is due, this level was best looking level I have played so far in this contest, even if it's mostly just Super Mario World aesthetics (which probably would give 17/20 in aesthetics if not for poorly designed secret exit part where aesthetics harm the level design). Unfortunately, that's not enough for a good result from me (and I wouldn't be surprised if other judges, especially those specializing in gameplay would feel similar way). There is a bit of cut-off with nets on screen 0E of level 105, which I don't exactly mind, but other judges may.

OTHER: There is no reason to include .ips patch, just saying. Just include .bps, judges will know how to patch this.


ThePat545 - Absolute Frenzy
Design and Execution: 3/50
Design Creativity and Aesthetic Creativity: 20/30
Aesthetics and Polish: 11/20
Overall: 34/100
Level video (takes 1 hour)
GOAL SPHERE
This level was bad.
level was bad.
was bad.
bad.
.

help
helphelp
helphelphelp
helphelphelphelp

I will admit that some obstacles were quite interesting, however the level was frustratingly hard, and wasn't fun at all. The Midway Point was very lopsided (the part after Midway Point was very short). The obstacle with dolphins was quite interesting, but why put Rexes above if a player is forced to die (or use spinjump through platform glitch, I suppose that's an option) up here? Why is even player forced to die if they fail at this obstacle?

Decorations were bad, bad, and bad. They are really busy, and level designer also hid spikes behind priority carpets (and sometimes player gets unfairly hit by Bowser statue fire that hid behind a carpet). Why even hide blocks behind priority blocks in a hard level like this?

But that aside, Bowser statues in vertical levels just don't work. Sprites in vertical levels despawn when they are off camera vertically. Bowser statue fire doesn't move vertically, just horizontally, which means that if Bowser statue is not despawned, so its fire is alive, even if off-screen. Fire can easily take all the sprite slots, despawning important sprites (like wall springboard or key and keyhole) forcing player to die. Also, player shouldn't be expected to know that hitting Bowser statue from below will cause it spawn fire - the level doesn't explain that at all, you shouldn't expect the player to have played VIP5 or VLDC9. Requiring that glitch without letting player know how it works for moon is fine, but definitely not for Dragon Coin or secret exit.

I like the Big Boo boss fight, but that's all I can say.

stop
Hey there. Usually I would stay out of this thread, but I need to point out something.

You've tripped into that pitfall where you rate Aesthetics and Polish 0 or close to 0 in levels that you clearly don't like from your comments. In general you seem to be forgetting the "aesthetics" part of Aesthetics and Polish and are focusing too much on this bit from the description of the category: "with effort into ensuring the overall quality of the level". 90% of the time in your judging, this effectively makes that category an extension of Design and Execution and please don't do that.
Originally posted by Noivern
Hey there. Usually I would stay out of this thread, but I need to point out something.

You've tripped into that pitfall where you rate Aesthetics and Polish 0 or close to 0 in levels that you clearly don't like from your comments. In general you seem to be forgetting the "aesthetics" part of Aesthetics and Polish and are focusing too much on this bit from the description of the category: "with effort into ensuring the overall quality of the level". 90% of the time in your judging, this effectively makes that category an extension of Design and Execution and please don't do that.

Thanks for the concern, I decided to verify every score I assigned. There is a correlation (although not as strong one, there are levels that I rated highly in aesthetics, but not in other categories), but I don't think of it as an issue. Somebody (not mentioning names to avoid suggesting what level it is) asked me a similar question before in JUMP 1/2 chatroom a while ago after I rated his level quite highly in Aesthetic category (but not other categories).

My understanding of "aesthetics" category is checking if stuff isn't distracting or confusing, whether level graphics are pleasing (this is distinct from actual aesthetics creativity category, as vanilla level will be able to easily get a high rating (15~17) in that one, considering SMW graphics are actually really good), and also whether music is fitting.

I rated two levels in aesthetics category 0/20. One of it was pretty bad in terms of aesthetics, but I decided to go straight down to 0 after it decided that full screen epilepsy palette animation is a good idea. Yes, I'm not making that up - this actually did hurt by looking at it. The other one is most recent review, and here I think aesthetics do hurt the level, with stuff like carpets hiding tiles in such a way that is hard to tell what is what, and carpets hiding sprites behind those which can cause cheap damage. There is also problem with generally busy aesthetics, distracting from the level.



(although now that I made this screenshot, I see it's a clever way of hiding glitched graphics, still unfair to a player)

Also, you point out that I rated some levels close 0 that I didn't like. Looking back, I found one instance of this problem, where I think the level actually should have got a higher rating, and I just updated rating from 4 to 9 (the level did have issues, but they weren't as big). Rest of aesthetics ratings I assigned look fine for me as far my definition of a category goes.
Originally posted by Noivern
Hey there. Usually I would stay out of this thread, but I need to point out something.

You've tripped into that pitfall where you rate Aesthetics and Polish 0 or close to 0 in levels that you clearly don't like from your comments. In general you seem to be forgetting the "aesthetics" part of Aesthetics and Polish and are focusing too much on this bit from the description of the category: "with effort into ensuring the overall quality of the level". 90% of the time in your judging, this effectively makes that category an extension of Design and Execution and please don't do that.


I just wanna say I appreciate this distinction, and I hope (and kinda figure) that other judges will do the same.

GlitchMR, your judging is definitely pretty good and appreciated, but be careful not to fall too hard into the "design over aesthetics" so much to the point that levels that try too hard on aesthetics and fail on level design are punished. Duh level design is more important, I think 99.9% of people on here agree (
besides ninjaboy cough cough
). I'm one of those people who is weary of the vldc's turning into an "a e s t h e t i c s and cool gimmicks that are well polished design contest", and to make sure that design is the most important gameplay element. Even if Stratus Stairway is a pretty bad, boring level, I've played it and the aesthetics are decent enough to not warrant an 11/20, and even if Absolute Frenzy absolutely sucks, it still looks okay enough to not get a 0/20. Even though design is the most important category and the most important part of a level design contest, I don't think that design can overflow into the aesthetics category so much that enough points are subtracted to equate it back to zero. Yes, small amounts of category overflow exist, but trust me, you and I would both be very annoyed if the judges used category overflow to "spill" negative aesthetic points into design if the level looked really bad, or negative aesthetic points into aesthetics if the level was too difficult for example. So I would steer away from overflowing too many negative points in aesthetics just because the design was lackluster from focusing too much on aesthetics, to the point that they become negative. If Absolute Frenzy was made entirely of cement blocks, would it have still scored a 0/20? I wouldn't give a level a 0/20 unless it had seizure-causing exanimation, in my opinion at least.
Originally posted by GbreezeSunset
GlitchMR, your judging is definitely pretty good and appreciated, but be careful not to fall too hard into the "design over aesthetics" so much to the point that levels that try too hard on aesthetics and fail on level design are punished. Duh level design is more important, I think 99.9% of people on here agree (
besides ninjaboy cough cough
). I'm one of those people who is weary of the vldc's turning into an "a e s t h e t i c s and cool gimmicks that are well polished design contest", and to make sure that design is the most important gameplay element. Even if Stratus Stairway is a pretty bad, boring level, I've played it and the aesthetics are decent enough to not warrant an 11/20, and even if Absolute Frenzy absolutely sucks, it still looks okay enough to not get a 0/20. Even though design is the most important category and the most important part of a level design contest, I don't think that design can overflow into the aesthetics category so much that enough points are subtracted to equate it back to zero. Yes, small amounts of category overflow exist, but trust me, you and I would both be very annoyed if the judges used category overflow to "spill" negative aesthetic points into design if the level looked really bad, or negative aesthetic points into aesthetics if the level was too difficult for example. So I would steer away from overflowing too many negative points in aesthetics just because the design was lackluster from focusing too much on aesthetics, to the point that they become negative. If Absolute Frenzy was made entirely of cement blocks, would it have still scored a 0/20? I wouldn't give a level a 0/20 unless it had seizure-causing exanimation, in my opinion at least.

Actually, thanks, you are right on this one. Looking back at ThePat545's level, I improved its aesthetics rating a bit (and actually, I boosted pretty much all aesthetics scores). I probably would have changed the rating later on anyway when taking a second look at the levels. I'm not really satisfied with my rankings (I'm new to all this judging business, the intent of this thread was so that I could learn it, while helping other level designers and not affect the scores), I change them a few days after first reviewing the level to what I feel is more accurate, but I suppose I should mention that level scores are subject to change. For instance, LHB's level had 65 rating, which was increased to 67 a few days later, and Roberto's level had 61 rating increased to 65. Those are mostly small changes, but they, I feel improve the ratings. I probably should keep track of such changes, however, just to notify that they did happen.

I was worried that I rate the aesthetics levels lower, which is something that I'm unfortunately aware of. The problem is that they do in fact feel weaker level design wise for me, even if I try to ignore aesthetics. That said, I really liked some of VLDC aesthetics levels (like Aperture Laboratory made by you), so it's not that I hate all levels with pretty aesthetic... And I do think that Interplanetary should have won VLDC9, which is very aesthetic level (which would get 20/20 in that category for me).

As for Stratus Stairway, the level does deserve 17/20 in aesthetics, it was even mentioned in a review. My problem with it the secret exit section (rest is fine aesthetically) where aesthetics make the level annoying. Although I think that may be more of gameplay thing.

How do you feel I should rate aesthetic that actually affects gameplay negatively? A secret exit portion of Stratus Stairway is a good example of such an issue with clouds over everything.
Thank you for your criticism. I respect that you provide actual feedback and sometimes even suggestions rather than "BAD LOL -20/10" and I think you make an overall great fan judge.

However, I did somewhat disagree with a few minor things. Correct me if I'm wrong, but fire wouldn't despawn anything considering the use of SA-1, which allows for 20 sprites and the No More Sprite Tile Limits patch. Related to despawning also, there were only 2 Bowser statues in the vertical section, one being at the bottom screen which is unreachable after progressing with the springboard. The second one is also before a screen that you can't return from, so despawning overall wouldn't be a problem.

Everything else, I agree with. Strongly agree. This was meant to be a challenging level, but not to the degree that you experienced. I thought perhaps the spikes next to the carpets would have been an indicator, though. I didn't want to remove them either because it was a huge part of the level. I do realize some of them were unfair, such as the one after the glitched Mega Mole that hid a projectile. I can understand how the glitch could be a problem since there's no context other than a pretty coin above it, so I'll change the level a bit around that.

Overall, I will revise this and re-think indicators and difficulty. I will explain and utilize the glitch more, change some carpets, move the midway point, and make the dolphin part with Rexes non-death. And once again, please correct me if I'm wrong about the Bowser statues in the vertical section. I don't want players to be unable to move on because a springboard despawned.

I'll say it again. Thank you for your criticism. It was eye-opening and gave me a sense of perspective.
Originally posted by GlitchMr
How do you feel I should rate aesthetic that actually affects gameplay negatively? A secret exit portion of Stratus Stairway is a good example of such an issue with clouds over everything.


When the aesthetics are good on their own but negatively affect gameplay, it's a Design and Execution issue.

In your example, the graphics look good and the idea is good, but the execution falls flat.
Originally posted by ThePat545
However, I did somewhat disagree with a few minor things. Correct me if I'm wrong, but fire wouldn't despawn anything considering the use of SA-1, which allows for 20 sprites and the No More Sprite Tile Limits patch.


I'm on tablet so I won't go into details (besides I already write this post third time, stupid devices lol).

Essentially, the problem is that sprites only despawn when offscreen vertically in vertical levels. It doesn't matter how far offscreen horizontally they go, the game doesn't even check horizontal position when considering whether sprite should despawn. Bowser statue fire doesn't move vertically.

SA-1 patch does increase limit of number of sprites, but doesn't get rid of it. Essentially what happens here is a memory leak where Bowser statue constantly creates sprites, but they don't disappear until it's too late - important sprites refused to spawn, and Bowser fire despawned too late when you go up.

Try sitting near Bowser statue in vertical section of your level, you will see it refuse to spawn new fireballs at some point.

Also, thanks for explaining Noivern. I will correct scores when I'll be using my computer.

What are those "Goal Sphere" mean
-------------
My hacks:
Bowser's Castle (finished)
Bowser's Castle 2 (finished)
Super Mario World - Mushroom Revolution (Work in progress)
Layout by Koopster
if a level is frustratingly difficult, or just too hard to beat without tools like savestates, slowdown or rewind, the level gets "goal sphered", allowing you to get the exit without having to play the level
ask me if i give a f*ck...

In VLDC9 those are green door levels, yeah?
Switch: SW-2766-9108-9399Twitter: @Vine_STYouTube: that ivy guy
Okay, so some changes were done in terms of aesthetics scores as a result of my misunderstanding of scores criteria. Thanks to Noivern and GbreezeSunset for clarifying them, it's really great :).
  • Gamma V - YOSHI'S ISLAND 1: 8 → 17
  • 1UPdudes - NET SO FAST: 11 → 13
  • Mathos - Stratus Stairway: 11 → 17
  • ThePat545 - Absolute Frenzy: 0 → 11
Also, design score updates:
  • Super Stiviboy - AESTHETIC LAND: 5 → 8
  • Gamma V - YOSHI'S ISLAND 1: 18 → 14
This time, I decided to only play one level, due to all the updates that occured.

RZIBARA - FUZZY HEIGHTS
Design and Execution: 46/50
Design Creativity and Aesthetic Creativity: 22/30
Aesthetics and Polish: 18/20
Overall: 87/100
Level video
Good job. You managed to make a really good level basing on a single enemy used in multiple creative set ups. The level was challenging (harder than SMW levels), but reasonable. and gradually increased its difficulty from when it introduced its concept (sometimes lowering it, but that's what SMW levels did too with a good reason). It had quite the right length to not feel frustrating (I felt like all deaths I had in this level were my fault, which is something that should be a goal of a level designer).

Dragon coins were placed really well. They are all on main path, but they are still all pretty challenging to get (but not too much) - which is great. I also really liked the puzzle to get moon. There moon path is much harder, can be easily avoided, but doesn't feel like pointless when playing the level normally (I was fascinated when I realized where the moon is, and how elements in a level are set up in such a way to make it possible to get the moon without being obvious about it). The way moon was hidden was really clever, but it's still possible to discover it without going into Lunar Magic by noticing a particular odd element in a level.

Aesthetically, you did a great job. There are decorations that make level prettier, but they don't distract from gameplay at all. Palettes are similar to SMW palettes, but they are more saturated, and overall look better as far your level is considered. I feel like cave section could have better palettes however, but that's a minor thing. I'm impressed that you managed to make a good use Layer 2 Scroll effect - the end result is really good, it does make the level feel more lively, and what I'm surprised about - doesn't distract from gameplay.

OTHER: Set your level to use custom palettes. Otherwise, when the level will be inserted, it will get vanilla SMW palettes (as palettes you modified are global for the ROM). Just flip the switch for all your sublevels, and save the levels, this will make the palettes level specific, and they won't change when the level is inserted into vanilla ROM. Still include Mario palette in your submission (as the instructions say), because you did modify it, however.
Originally posted by Ivy
In VLDC9 those are green door levels, yeah?

Yeah its the same thing
YouTube | Music
I apologize for delay with the review. I actually played the level yesterday, I had no idea how to review it because it was a generic level.

JeanOliveira - SPINY'S TREES
Design and Execution: 20/50
Design Creativity and Aesthetic Creativity: 15/30
Aesthetics and Polish: 15/20
Overall: 50/100
Level video
A level so generic and average that I had no idea how to review it. I really should have a strategy for levels I have nothing really to say about. I would love to say anything, I just don't have anything to - this is the most average level so far.

While I'm pretty sure dots were supposed to look like rain, they look more like snow to me (which doesn't really make sense in forest environment without snow on ground). You may want to check, say, G.D.'s entry in VLDC9 (Stormy Ruins at end of mountain world) to see how rain could look in vanilla.

Secret exit took lots of attempts to get due to precise timings in that section, but I think that's the best part of a level, as it was the most interesting one. The normal level was pretty much boring, due to lack of interesting obstacle set ups.

I liked moon placement in a level.


MonkeyShrapnel - •U >Y◄ ) I O▼W•UI
Design and Execution: DQ/50
Design Creativity and Aesthetic Creativity: DQ/30
Aesthetics and Polish: DQ/20
Overall: DQ/100
Screenshot made with ZSNES because ZSNES can make screenshots of UI elements. Do I need to say more?

Actually, I can. After analysis of the ROM, I realized that it has two 512 bytes headers, one of those contains data that I believe is garbage. I don't know how you managed to have two headers, and yet had this thing work for you, but after I removed one with hex editor, I managed to actually play your patch. Consider that a gesture of good will, still fix your patch, or otherwise your level will be disqualified. Make your patch using Floating IPS tool from the Tools section. So, let's get into a proper review.


MonkeyShrapnel - Covert Volcano
Design and Execution: DQ/50 (actually 16/50)
Design Creativity and Aesthetic Creativity: DQ/30 (actually 6/30)
Aesthetics and Polish: DQ/20 (actually 16/20)
Overall: DQ/100 (actually 38/100)
Fixed level patch (for video playback)
Level video (doesn't get all Dragon Coins)
This level was slow, which is really biggest problem with it - player essentially just waits forever. It was pretty much skull raft rides without anything to keep those interesting. Well, you did have some enemies, but Vanilla Dome 3 had more challenges than this - you may want to make your level more challenging. Speaking of Vanilla Dome 3, it's pretty much the longest level (and pretty boring, although not as boring as this) in Super Mario World, and yet you decided to make something longer than that for some reason. Consider shortening your level, put quality over quantity. Also, you may want to have flatter slopes near places where you have to jump, due to tricky jumps (Mario sometimes doesn't want to jump) on skull platforms while traveling over slopes.

I don't like the lava trail at end of first part, as it has ground so high that player doesn't see the skull platform, which means that if player is too slow or too fast, the platform will despawn. Make sure player always sees skull platform if it needs to be followed. Similarly, I don't like the first instance of invisible coin blocks. I do understand you were trying to be helpful with jump, but this is five tile jump, which I can do without help - and invisible coin here will cause attempt to do five tile jump to likely go into lava.

Fourth Dragon Coin was placed really badly. There is no reason for player to try to find invisible coins where nothing suggests there is anything above - and I didn't bother trying to find all Dragon Coins due to how boring level was. Secret exit section seems out of place with balloon section in forest, but despite Balloon reputation, I think this is best part of a level. That's not to say balloon is any good, just that I actually found this section fun.

Also, your level has a moon (that I found using Lunar Magic), mark that in intro.
I didn't feel all that well yesterday (I felt like I would rate levels unfairly if I did try to judge levels), so have a review now.

Superwario1999 - Swiss Springs
Design and Execution: 39/50
Design Creativity and Aesthetic Creativity: 26/30
Aesthetics and Polish: 18/20
Overall: 83/100
Level video
A really neat, hard and long puzzle level about a green springy things glitch. I feel like a bit too long, which is curious enough because the level is really short when checked in Lunar Magic. This may be due to every single screen filled with content and tricky challenges. Obstacles are all really clever, and require thinking to deal with.

I feel like the transition room between Midway Point and cave section is somewhat pointless. It's just an empty room with message box, I think you could put a message box near Midway Point (or better yet, introduce the gimmick, Matterhorn (abstract world level in VLDC9) had a really neat introduction of a gimmick, you may try for something similar). The first part of a cave is relatively boring and slow, and I think it could use 1UP checkpoint just before Boo room to allow skipping it (as it's not that fun to repeat it over and over, the section is fun, don't get me wrong, just a bit boring once you know what you need to do). Yes, I seriously propose 1UP checkpoint after playing 5 screens, I do think that it would noticeably improve the level by removing repetitiveness (and Boo section is quite confusing at first, so deaths are likely).

The springboard at screen 00 of level 10B likes to stick itself to the player (especially when holding right), which can cause cheap deaths, if it constantly tries to bounce the player. I think this could be fixed by having two wall springboards (each one above throw blocks, pointing in different directions so that they aren't on themselves), but I'm not sure, so feel free to check that set up (hint: hold right for testing).

For fifth Dragon Coin, a gimmick can be easily ignored by spinjumping on Fuzzy. Considering this is the easier way of getting the coin, you may want to change challenge a bit.

OTHER: You aren't part of JUMP/2 devteam, so what's the deal with "Swiss" in level name. Nah, not serious here, I liked the level, so feel free to keep it (it's not that JUMP/2 has a trademark on "Swiss" or anything, probably Morsel has it anyway). In a way, that was a mistake to not wait until the last moment to rename levels to "Swiss".
Originally posted by GlitchMr
OTHER: You aren't part of JUMP/2 devteam, so what's the deal with "Swiss" in level name.


Oh, so that's where the Swiss naming thing comes from.
I thought it was inspired from VLDC's Swiss Hotel.
Layout by Erik557
Hi.
You're both right.
Just so you know, I'm very active on the site anymore like I was before; I'm mainly on Discord now.
It's because they're all secretly confirmed for morsel
Originally posted by GbreezeSunset
It's because they're all secretly confirmed for morsel

you're part of the team too so #wario{-_-?}
Link Thread Closed